The Great Dialogue

There is no wisdom save in truth. Truth is everlasting, but our ideas about truth are changeable. Only a little of the first fruits of wisdom, only a few fragments of the boundless heights, breadths and depths of truth, have I been able to gather. Martin Luther  

Of the Hereafter [Modified from the Writer's Almanac for 11-29] After the death of his wife, Joy, in 1960, CS Lewis was devastated. He wrote a book, A Grief Observed (1961), which contained his thoughts, questions, and observations. It was so raw and personal that he published it under a pseudonym. Friends actually recommended the book to him, to help with his grief, unaware that he'd written it. His authorship wasn't made known until after his death in 1963. In the book, he writes that he doesn't believe people are reunited with their loved ones in the next life.  ~What do you think? Will we see our departed loved ones in heaven?

Martin Luther's advice to a friend who was depressed:  "Be strong and cheerful and cast out these monstrous thoughts. Whenever the devil harasses you thus, seek the company of men or drink more, or joke and talk nonsense, or do some other merry thing. Sometimes we must drink more, sport, recreate ourselves, aye, and even sin a little to spite the devil, so that we leave him no place for troubling our consciences with trifles. We are conquered if we try too conscientiously not to sin at all. So when the devil says to you: 'Do not drink,' answer him: 'I will drink, and right freely, just because you tell me not to.' One must always do what Satan forbids. What other cause do you think that I have for drinking so much strong drink, talking so freely and making merry so often, except that I wish to mock and harass the devil who is wont to mock and harass me. Would that I could contrive some great sin to spite the devil, that he might understand that I would not eve...

U.S. Stands Alone In Its Embrace of Religion Among Wealthy Nations … OVERVIEW Religion is much more important to Americans than to people living in other wealthy nations. Six-in-ten (59%) people in the U.S. say religion plays a very important role in their lives. This is roughly twice the percentage of self-avowed religious people in Canada (30%), and an even higher proportion when compared with Japan and Western Europe. Americans' views are closer to people in developing nations than to the publics of developed nations. The 44-nation survey of the Pew Global Attitudes Project shows stark global regional divides over the personal importance of religion.[1] In Africa, no fewer than eight-in-ten in any country see religion as very important personally. Majorities in every Latin American country also subscribe to that view, with the exception of Argentina. More than nine-in-ten respondents in the predominantly Muslim nations of Indonesia, Pakistan, Mali and Senegal rate rel...

This all seems pretty obvious to me--not sure there's much to say. Yes, I think these things are pretty universal, though I think the last one about protecting the environment is not so well understood. Too many of us humans aren't farsighted enough to pay much attention to this one. Jim

Hello...see link below to the World Moral Code: http://www.universalmoralcode.com/code.html -- I would like to know what you each think...Thanx, Wayne

Hello,   Long time no see! :)   Below is from the Writer's Almanac today...Quite relevant to how the Dialogue operates! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It was on this day  in 1838 that Ralph Waldo Emerson delivered 'The Divinity School  Address' at Harvard. There were about 100 people in the audience,  including six of the seven graduates of Harvard Divinity School, as well as  faculty, ministers, and former graduates. Emerson had graduated from Harvard  Divinity in 1826, and the graduating students had chosen him as the speaker for  this event. The year before, he had given a lecture called 'The American  Scholar' to the Harvard Phi Beta Kappa society. It was controversial but  popular, and the students were eager to have him back.  Emerson had been a Unitarian minister, but he had resigned a few years earlier. He was skeptical  of the Communion ritual, and of the whole concept of public prayer —  he felt it should be a private, individual expression. Emerso...

Today I read "When the King Saved God" in the latest issue of Vanity Fair in which Christopher Hitchens, himself an unbeliever, argues that the King James translation of the Bible is essential to our American cultural literacy. Beyond this, he even asserts that this translation must surge ahead of the ever-burgeoning tide of lesser, more trendy texts to come along due to its timeless poetry and authoritative interpretations. While he highlights some of the infamously biased word choices of the great English translation, he maintains that it should still be considered the essential version of the Christian Bible. This begs the question of the Dialogue: Do you think there can or should be an essential translation of the Christian (or other religious) text, by which all others are measured?

Good Morning    I have been reading about Pastor Rob Bell - Pastor Bell has written a book in which he asserts that there IS NO HELL - while quoting scriptures out of context [and very fluidly] to make his point - Below is a link to a NY TIMES article about him [TIME magazine made it the cover story a week ago].    This stands out for me as one of the greatest problems for the Dialogue, and society; how to approach examples in which a newer "form" of Christianity becomes popular but in total disregard for traditional and even explicit, foundational, Church teaching...there appear to be, in the mind of many, no Essentials to anything...Will science be next? See: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/05/us/05bell.html

See Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13153536 - for an article from BBC regarding the death of Indian Guru, Sai Baba...Somehow I had missed hearing much about him until now...I was wondering as I read what the members of the Dialogue would think--mainly of him as a Syncretist?

from the Writer's Almanac [4/22] "It's the birthday of Enlightenment philosopher Immanuel Kant (books by this author), born in Konigsberg, Prussia, in 1724. His father was a saddle maker. He studied theology, physics, mathematics, and philosophy at university, and worked for a time as a private tutor; he made very little money, but it gave him plenty of time for his own work. He lectured at the University of Konigsberg for 15 years, until he was eventually given a tenured position as professor of logic and metaphysics in 1770. Though he enjoyed hearing travel stories, he never ventured more than 50 miles from his hometown, believing that travel was not necessary to solve the problems of philosophy. In his most influential work, The Critique of Pure Reason (1781), he argued against Empiricism, which held that the mind was a blank slate to be filled with observations of the physical world, and Rationalism, which held that it was possible to experience the world o...

Sometime ago, Psychology--as a field--moved in the direction of including spirituality as an important dimension of peoples' lives, and away from the longstanding position that God [and religion] was an unimportant concept...Now there are trainings, books, college courses on addressing the spiritual concerns of clients in therapy. As I was attending one lecture on this subject It got me to reflecting on the Essentials concept...it would be foolish to reject out of hand "any good thing," such as the concept of energy meridians or recent scientific discoveries about how the  body [and brain] process pain signals, or the nuances of someone's culture and how it affects their viewpoint--that having been said, I propose that holding to a set of Essential beliefs and behaviors, while helping to define a spiritual position, should not be allowed to create an unassailable, Monolithic viewpoint...there is always diversity in religion [even within denominations]...this is probab...

Supposedly, today is Buddha's Birthday. There is a "belief" that when he was born dragons flew down from heaven and poured out water and "all the flowers on land and water bloomed simultaneously" [writer's almanac]. As a consequence, people celebrate this day by decorating with flowers, carrying flowers to temples ceremonially, and in Japan children pour tea over the heads of statues of Buddha... It makes me think: maybe we DO need to canonize scriptures--this is likely not an Essential Buddhist belief, is it?  Besides, wouldn't he have been born TOO LATE for Dragons? I suspect that is also why some books were excluded from the Christian canon, e.g., because they held accounts of Jesus' acts or teachings that were markedly inconsistent with what was already accepted and known to have happened...odd, divergent accounts needed to be excluded on the basis they could not be credited...So here we see something in Buddhist lore that [and I realize this ...

Caste-based discrimination and a birth-based hierarchy are not an intrinsic part of Hinduism and represent a failure to uphold Hinduism's essential, spiritual teaching of divinity inherent in all beings.In a recent report the Hindu American Foundation (HAF)asserted that the caste-based system in Hindu society is NOT part of essential Hindu belief,even though some ancient texts appear to support caste and birth-based hierarchies. They further note that NONE require labeling some persons as "untouchable." Many of the Hindu scriptures state that divinity is part of ALL people. Caste does not fit with the belief that we should respect the divinity in all persons. SEE: http://www.hafsite.org/media/pr/not-cast-caste-big-picture-and-executive-summary?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=MEMBER+ALERT+-+HAF+clarifies+purpose+of+...&utm_source=YMLP&utm_term=Hinduism%3A+Not+Caste+in

Hello,   For context, See article, "Beginning the Journey" by Judith Lasater at: http://www.yogajournal.com/wisdom/462?utm_source=Wisdom&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=Wisdom The first yama is perhaps the most famous one: ahimsa, usually translated as "nonviolence." This refers not only to physical violence, but also to the violence of words or thoughts. What we think about ourselves or others can be as powerful as any physical attempt to harm. To practice ahimsa is to be constantly vigilant, to observe ourselves in interaction with others and to notice our thoughts and intentions. Try practicing ahimsa by observing your thoughts when a smoker sits next to you. Your thoughts may be just as damaging to you as his cigarette is to him. It is often said that if one can perfect the practice of ahimsa, one need learn no other practice of yoga, for all the other practices are subsumed in it. Whatever practices we do after the yamas must include ...

From the Writer's Almanac: "It's the birthday of science fiction  writer and Church of Scientology founder L.  Ron Hubbard, born in Tilden, Nebraska  (1911). He enrolled in George Washington University in 1930 to study civil engineering but was placed on academic probation because  of poor grades, and he left after two semesters. In 1950, he wrote Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental  Health, which formed the basis of the Church of Scientology's  teaching. The book explains that humans have 'engrams,' recordings of  painful events experienced in the past, stored in their subconscious and that  these are the basis of physical and emotional problems. In order to be cleared  of these engrams and unwanted spiritual conditions, a person takes part in an  'auditing' session, where a counselor uses an Electropsychometer, or  E-Meter, to measure the mental state of a person, helping to locate areas of  spiritual distre...

Steve - I agree that there is a need for ongoing dialogue about this - in almost every case when the state has a endorsed a "State religion" problems arise...and even in America, where there is a lot of freedom to choose one's religious practice and to carry it out unimpeded, we still see many trying to use courts and legislative actions to limit or remove one or another group's rights [sometimes even private citizens rights] to practice their own religion peaceably.       I certainly do not have any easy answers: this country was designed to allow tolerance of diverse ideas and views, but our international policies and actions seem to me, at times, to belie that. and internally, many of us are very intolerant of other's worldviews...I hope the Dalai Lama's decision plays out as he hopes... As for the USA, If Christians would take the lead in promoting religious tolerance it might help...I find it hardest to be that person when it comes to my closest associa...

Dalai Lama plans to quit as Tibet political leader http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7290UK20110310

Please Pray with me for the People of Japan! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12709598

Today is  International Women's Day, which has been celebrated in the United States, Russia,  and parts of Europe since the turn of the 20th  century. It was during this holiday in 1917 that women workers in Russia left  factories and took to the streets to protest food shortages. When Czar Nicholas  II ordered the military to intervene, they did not. Shortly afterward, he  abdicated, and shortly after that, women in Russia  were given the right to vote, three years before women in the U.S.  International Women's Day is celebrated in 28 countries and  recognized by the United Nations.

Good Morning! The link below is an article you may find of interest - I found it while thinking about some photos I saw awhile back on the Internet that disturbed me...friends [yes, actually] of mine posted photos of themselves dressed as Jesus [various "forms" of Jesus] in what was certainly meant to be a mockery of Him...it often seems to me that we are getting farther away from religious tolerance in the USA, not closer...in some ways I salute the spirit of the persons in the article linked below because they are using their freedom of speech to assert their views...I welcome that...but inflammatory things [like the photos I mentioned] seem pointed in the wrong direction...what to do about religious tolerance? http://www.peoplesworld.org/as-americans-turn-away-from-religion-atheists-plan-ads/

From today's Writer's Almanac: "Only half of Vermonters say they believe in God, compared with about 70  percent of the rest of the nation. People there attend weekly services at a  much lower rate than other Americans, and a much smaller percentage say that  religion is important to them. There are, however, a disproportionately high  number of American converts to Buddhism living in Vermont, and there are several Buddhist  retreat centers through out the state."

From the Barna Group Website, today:   Posted on January 12, 2009 For much of America's history, the assumption was that if you were born in America, you would affiliate with the Christian faith. A new nationwide survey by The Barna Group, however, indicates that people's views have changed. The study discovered that half of all adults now contend that Christianity is just one of many options that Americans choose from and that a huge majority of adults pick and choose what they believe rather than adopt a church or denomination's slate of beliefs. Still, most people say their faith is becoming increasingly important as a source of personal moral guidance. Choosing a Faith The survey shows half of Americans believe the Christian faith no longer has a lock on people's hearts. Overall, 50% of the adults interviewed agreed that Christianity is no longer the faith that Americans automatically accept as their personal faith, while just 44% disagreed and 6% were not sur...

Good Morning...It has occurred to me often that religions with some sense of scientific inquiry about them [I think of Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Yoga...] are growing in popularity [well, maybe not Taoism] whereas Christianity is so very focused on accepting things as true without much tangible evidence...Jesus did not experiment with meditative techniques or postulate the principles that guide nature and produce natural phenomena, nor the operating principles of Dharma and Karma - He spoke to his disciples and others about God and about man's behavior, and, about the need to believe in Him and be saved [with no mechanism involved other than faith and that God can do all things]...Now, it has been said that Islam is also gaining converts steadily - and I suspect that this is due to both a political impetus [in some situations it may be expedient to espouse Islam for one's own safety] and because it is in some ways more accessible to people - sin-debt is more simple: the balanc...

...Victor Hugo, said, ''There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world: and  that is an idea whose time has come.'    I wonder how others are perceiving this upheaval in Africa and the middle east since the fall of Tunisia's previous government - it seems to me that once the Tunis and Egyptian conflicts were widely made know [now through all sorts of means, including social Media] the world under oppressive regimes began to catch "the Idea" -  and what of the religious components of these oppressive regimes? Seems to me there were some of these that were religious only in name, and that the man or men in charge were just military big shots...what country will be next?    There was some coverage on Thursday with NPR live interviewing a man in a rebel camp in Libya who when asked what did he think the world should do for them he said, "The US should intervene there now...not wait like they did In Tunisia and Egypt.." I thought, with so...

Good Afternoon, Friends!    I am looking for more members for the Blog - and am hoping you might pass this link below onto anyone who might be a good fit for us - you know, someone who wants to Dialogue, and who has opinions they would like to share about religion/spirituality, other types of worldviews and cultural perspectives relevant to this Dialogue...As founding members who have continued on to this point let me say THANK YOU and that I trust that our circle will grow, albeit slowly...Be sure to point out to perspective members the survey button at the bottom of the blog-page...Pax!    https://sites.google.com/site/4chandre/thegreatdialogue

From the Writer's Almanac, 2/24/2011 When Fidel Castro stepped down in 2008, people  around the world began to speculate about changes. Raul Castro [Fidel's brother who is in charge now] is very different from his brother. For one thing, Raul does not give big rousing speeches that go on for hours.  He's actually known for his 'inanimate delivery' of speeches. Within  months of assuming the office of president,Raul   allowed Cubans to own microwaves, rice cookers, DVD  players, and cell phones -- all of which had been prohibited when Fidel was  president. Unlike Fidel, Raul does not blame the U.S.  embargo as the root of all Cuba's  economic woes. Instead, Raul admits that it is Cuba's inefficient, unproductive  state-run economy that is the problem, and that the government can no longer  afford the huge subsidies -- in housing,  food, transportation, health care, retirement, etc. -- which the government  provides to Cubans in exchange for payin...

Dalai Lama Espouses Marxism: http://trueslant.com/abytharakan/2010/05/21/as-dalai-lama-embraces-red-will-marxism-help-where-hollywood-failed/

Hey everyone - see the new look!

Good Morning   I have been thinking about how the way a culture views things may have something to say about its spiritual practices...for example, are collectivist societies different qualitatively from more individualistic societies?  In the West we tend to more of an individualistic viewpoint--and maybe that contributes to our infighting in Christianity and even in other Western-adopted spiritual viewpoints? Is Buddhism more amendable to a collectivist worldview? These are the questions I have been pondering - complicating this is that Jesus did exhort us to love our neighbor, and the Bible is full of references to God loving the whole world/all nations, etc., and the apostles tell us to strive to live at peace with all mankind...this sounds collectivistic, sort of like Buddhism's practice of loving kindness for all living things, etc...or, consider Hinduism and how there exists a harmony amongst ALL things...maybe this collectivist/individualist dimension explains some of the k...

Steve/James   All good points...I am liking the progress we are making!   I would remind the readers that Jesus [not only his disciples]  is recorded as having spoken about his divinity and his impending death and Resurrection...I have read portions of apocrypha and find them much as Jim describes...I was raised catholic and the Apocrypha are valued by them for some functions...it also helps to recall that the story of Hanukkah is recorded in one of the Apocryphal Maccabees texts...I think of it this way: if I authored a work, and then someone wrote a similar work, how would I protect the original work? how would I protect the names and terms associated with it? In religious circles, orthodoxy seems to be useful, in that copyrights and other protections do not exist...without some efforts in the  direction of protecting the Word anyone and everyone can author alternative accounts, leave out important things for their own purposes and basically liable-lize what was original...if the ori...

I'm not sure it's accurate that the alternative gospels have been "unearthed." We've known about them all along (as far as I know) but have basically ignored them. The reason is that the pre-Nicene Church was already beginning to think they weren't terribly authoritative; Nicaea just made that point of view official. Have you read any of them? It's not too hard to see why they came to be regarded as of minor significance. There are notable exceptions. The Catholic concept of Hell's Harrowing comes not from the canon but the Gospel of Nicodemus. But then again, when you realize that the Harrowing of Hell depends on a very earth-centered (perhaps I should say "physical-universe-centered") view of time, you begin to see that however Christocentric it is, the myth (and I don't use it here to mean something false) the concept is flawed. When you know how the Church developed its view of scriptural authority, you tend to be a little more flexib...

Regarding:   "I would love to see some passages from "alternative gospels," ...I'd be interested to know what other qualities they share."       That would be quite a study! LOTS of work in that...

   Thank you, everyone, for the comments...I think the following verses will be instructive, too: 2 Peter 1:16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory:"This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain. 19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, a which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, a 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God a spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.     I value the written testimony of the "eyewitnesses," and ...

Good Morning,    This morning [on Elaine Pagel's Birthday] I am thinking about the varied alternative gospels that have been unearthed, and how people often react to their existence...my main question is, what do you think the value of these is, if any? From where I stand, if the people who are the founding members of a religion exclude alternative writings, and have detailed in their own works what the tenets of the religion are to be, I cannot see how it becomes allowable for ANY alternative document to supplant the "authorized" works...for example, "Jesus died and rose from the dead" is a primary belief of the original Christian church...should an alternative view [Jesus was only a man...alternative gospels suggest this is true]be allowed to be called "Christian?"

Welcome Back, David Moyer! Be Sure to see the Survey at the bottom of the Great Dialogue Page...

I really have trouble reading purple and blue on black. They work great on white, as does the standard black.

Something funny from the Net: Why does someone believe you when you say there are four billion stars, but check when you say the paint is wet?

Steve   Welcome back!    Yes, in religion positions are often very staunchly held to--even when it would make more sense to carefully consider and respond at a later time. I think you are on the right path with your expressed thoughts about how religious practices Are helpful to members of a society; Sadly, I suspect many Christians are ready to "fight" against what sounds incompatible with their views, rather than start first from a position of Lovingkindness, careful forethought, etc.  I have not read the posionwood Bible.   Winnie the Pooh is accessible to me - Pooh certainly had a hold on a certain calm stability in the face of adversity and change--one wonders if Owl ["WOL"] is not a good example of how seemingly learn-ed persons can be pushed about by their imperfect assessments of events? :) Anyway, I think the Heart of sharing worldviews is NOT merely saying "all viewpoints are right, must be right," [that just seems impossible...several diverse ...

Wayne, I like what you said about uncertainty. The way I see it, the less we know about a proposition, the more staunchly we tend to defend it. It happens in science too much. But it happens in religion, even more. In the end, we can know with some certainty what we feel at the moment. And with a great deal of reasoning we can be pretty sure of the proposition "I think I think; therefore I think I am." Further afield, we actually know very little. So I tend to think that the truth of a religious proposition lies not in some essence of fact, but in how we would feel about living in a group, a society, a world that embraces the same proposition. For example "all people are equal before the law." When religious ideas and practices help us to be more kind, reflective, and open to other people, I think they can help us feel better about our place in society. And they can help us be part of a happier society. It is my opinion, however, that a great deal of theolog...

…The certainty of ANYTHING can be questioned; matter is not solid but packed with spaces, Light is made of particles [or is it waves?], and an honest man is a good man—and a good man is an honest man, right? I have, for much of my life, dealt with people who—with great certainty—assert that they believe in god and in heaven, but just NOT the version of God and heaven that I believe in…They are often just as self-assured that THEIR heaven is the same one as MY heaven…but, in fact, it is never MY heaven that I am referring to…If they are correct, then it is just as likely that the heaven I am going to is DIFFERENT than the one they are going to…who will reach heaven? No one can say with any certainty…as I write this, many people are being tortured and often dying, because of their belief in Jesus Christ…not that there are no other martyrs from other religious disciplines [I know there are, and I fear for those persons, too]…But this I DO know with certainty: many Christians choose to die...

...Good points!  Some of that can be managed by the administrative controls...with the Blog format the Moderator can edit and prevent invective, if needed...the Moderator would not do this unless a problem arose...since I am the only moderator [at this point] I can make those decisions at any time...but what you have written will help me in developing the POSTING GUIDELINES and Disclaimer's which I hope to have ready soon...

I think the only thing you can do is have a policy to which all participating must agree that, as a condition of joining in on the conversation, one must forgo taking the intellectual positions of others personally, remaining civil at all times and focused on gaining insight rather than competing for dominance. Beyond this, I think, we cannot control the pettiness to which humans are drawn. Colleen Yeany

...I am contemplating the problem of Dialogue...It seems to me that most people are unable to share their thoughts in writing [let alone in face to face conversation] without personalizing what the other person just said, or having to rebut - does no one listen and accept that another person can disagree? Worse, it seems that when we do get along, many of us accede but secretly disagree with others and never express this...I fear that Dialogue about our spiritual beliefs may be unfruitful, unless somehow the right climate can be established of honest, egalitarian exchange of ideas, and friendliness? How to make this happen? Dr Schmoyer

...My friends!    I have decided it is time...Time to resume the conversation that ended when the Great Dialogue Listerv Ended...This new BLOG format will allow for better communication and some administrative oversight not available before...Won't you join me once again? Wayne David Schmoyer